Make Model Info

Technically, a DSM is a car built by Diamond Star Motors, a joint effort by Mitsubishi (three diamonds) and the Chrysler Corporation (penta-star) to build some of the most incredible automobiles in the world. The vehicles were produced with the names Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, and Plymouth Laser. DSM cars are assembled in Normal, Illinois. The '94-and-up Mitsubishi Galant is also assembled at the DSM plant in IL; previous Galant's were assembled in Japan. The Eclipse and Galant (since '89) share the same platform..

[Note: From time to time, debates on the definition of a 'DSM' emerge on the Digest. These debates usually center around a record-breaking car which, because it does or does not have a certain component or feature, 'should' or 'should not' be considered a 'DSM' in the 'true' sense of the word.

Such judgements are entirely subjective and cannot be resolved, except by arbitrary rules; resist the temptation to reopen any such debate on the Talon Digest, as the moderator (and membership) are tired of hearing about it. All race results that can reasonably be deemedrelated to DSMs are reported - whoever is king in your own mind is best kept to yourself.]

In further news, the now-merged DaimlerChrysler corporation purchased a 34% stake in the now-ailing Mitsubishi Motors corporation in April, 2000. This is not to be taken as a re-emergence of DSM, however - the DSM marque is now consigned to the pages of history.

Diamond-Star Motors was officially dissolved in 1993 after the design and production tooling for the 1994 and 1995 cars was complete. Mitsubishi Motors continues to operate the plant formerly responsible for DSM cars under sole ownership.

The "Eagle" brand name was originally created as a method of integrating AMC dealerships and products into Chrysler. It continued for some time as a marque, much as General Motors now continues to market under several brand names. It was eventually discontinued as Chrysler sought to improve their business operations. For more information, go to eaglecars.com.

These terms are acronyms for the 'generation' of car. 1Gs (first generation) were built in the model years 1990-1994, 2Gs in 1995-1999, and 3Gs in the year 2000 onward. The Y2K Eclipse is the year 2000 Eclipse.

A Spyder is a convertible Eclipse only sold by Mitsubishi. It was introduced for the model year 1996 with non-turbo 2.4L and turbo 2.0L engines available. These cars are FWD only - there is no AWD version. Production was continued through the 1999 model year.

Note that the name 'Spyder' was also used on the Mitsubishi 3000GT convertible.

[Note: this information applies only to the definition of a 'DSM' as used for the purposes of the Talon Digest, and does not reflect the personal opinion of any individual.]

2G cars are considered DSMs because they are direct descendants of the original DSM cars.  Although they were technically not built by Diamond Star Motors, their connection to the original line is unmistakable, as they share the name, trim levels and original intention of the 1G cars. 

Also, some early 95 cars have DSM labeling on them, leading many to believe that all 2Gs were built by Diamond Star Motors. This is not the case, as Diamond Star Motors officially ceased to exist in mid-1993, when Chrysler sold off all of its Mitsubishi holdings, technically making the 1994 cars the last of the DSMs. This type of hair-splitting is not important for Club purposes, however, and the Club has decided that 2Gers have as much right to be included as earlier owners.

The Galant VR-4 is something of an oddity in the club, but the VR-4 shares many important components with the 1G cars, including the unusual AWD drivetrain.  It can be argued that the Galant VR-4 is the "parent" of all DSMs: the original concept for the DSM in North America was a four-door. Also the VR-4 platform was originally concieved to be Mitsubishi's entry into the rally racing circuit before DSM existed.

A similar situation exists with the 2G Spyder convertible, but it's connection with the other 2G cars is unmistakable. Thus the Spyder and VR4 are included in the scope of the Talon Digest.

Other pseudo-related cars, such as the non-USA Lancer and Mirage, are not included in the Digest.

The Last Word: C'mon guys, we're all brothers by now

[Note: this information applies only to the definition of a 'DSM' as used for the purposes of the Talon Digest, and does not reflect the personal opinion of any individual.]

The relationship between the 1G, 2G and 3G cars can be summarized as follows:

• 3Gs were not built by Diamond Star Motors, which was dissolved in 1993,
• they do not have the same engine lineup as the 1990-1999 cars,
• they do not have the same transmission lineup as the 1990-1999 cars,
• they share few parts with the 1990-1999 cars,
• they share few upgrade parts or upgrade paths with the 1990-1999 cars.

Please note that the diference in external appearance between 1G/2G cars and 3G cars was not a factor in making this determination. The moderator simply feels that to introduce discussion of a largely different car into the Digest will result in a fragmented version of a list which has already expanded well past the most optimistic expectations. There is no denying that most of the past and present discussion on the Talon Digest will have little to do with 3G cars It also seems unreasonable to expect future discussion on 1G/2G cars to be of interest to 3G owners because their cars have different engines, upgrades, and problems than previous models.

Owners of 3G cars need not despair. Check out Club3G, focused on modifying and maintaining the new model cars. Additionally, discussion on similar parts, upgrades or modifications will still be allowed on the Talon Digest, as they are with other cars such as the Colt, Mirage and Lancer, and a great deal of useful general performance information is contained in the many FAQ files. Also, speciality DSM vendors have already begun to support the 3G; this support will increase more and more in the years ahead.

Aside from the fact that Sebring and Avenger cars are built in the same MMMA plant as the 2G cars, there is nothing to connect them to the DSM name.  They do not share heritage, appearance, upgrade paths or many parts with DSMs. For this reason, these two models are not considered DSMs, and discussion regarding these cars is not part of the Talon Digest or most UBB systems concentrating on DSMs.

Having said that, the Avenger enthusiasts are quick to point out that the Avenger/Sebring platform and the second-generation non-turbo DSM platform do share some similarities. They have similar interiors, bodies, and suspension, and several of the non-turbo upgrades for the NT DSMs work on the A/S cars, since some A/S cars have the same 420A Chrysler motor. Also, some A/S cars have a 2.5L NT similar to the 3.0L NT found in third-generation Eclipses. (Information provided by Tomas Ely.) It could be argued that the A/S cars are cousins to the DSMs - not the same, but similar.

Those looking for more information on the Avenger and Sebring would do well to visit the A/S Owner's Group (ASOG). Seeing this is the internet archive link, not all links will work.

That depends on which model you have.  All of these cars have inline 4-cylinder engines, but the displacement and intake systems differ.

Base and mid models have non-turbo (NT) engines, while upper and AWD models have turbo (T) motors. All are 2.0L, except the base model (1.8L) and the non-turbo Spyder (2.4L). Details on the various configurations are below.

Table 1: 1990-1994 Talon/Eclipse/Laser/Galant 

Table 2: 1995-1999 Talon, Eclipse and Eclipse Spyder 

Table 3: 1996-1999 Eclipse Spyder 

Astute readers (or longtime owners) will notice the 190/195 horsepower "split" in the 1G models. This difference arises in differences in the published factory specifications for the different marques through the 1990 and 1991 model years and not through any actual known changes in the cars themselves. Eventually all the turbo models were rated at 195 horsepower.

DL/RS (1G) 1.8L SOHC, base model

RS (2G) 2.0 DOHC, base model

GS/ESi 2.0 DOHC, 2.0 Non-turbo, 2nd from the bottom model

GS-T/TSi 2.0 Turbo FWD, more options than the GS

GS-X/TSi AWD (Note:On 1Gs, TSi and TSi All wheel drive were badged identically from the rear, and only had the side decals to identify them separately) 2.0 Turbo AWD

Top speeds will obviously vary with the modifications to the vehicle.  However, the top speeds for stock vehicles are in the following neighborhood: 
-  1G AWD:  around 140 MPH / 225 km/h 
-  1G FWD:  140 MPH / 225 km/h 
-  2G AWD:  somewhere around 130-140 MPH. 
-  2G FWD:  some cars are speed limited to 130 MPH - see What are the differences between a M/T turbo and an A/T turbo?

As far as is known, the ECU will stop fuel delivery on all the DSM cars at 7500 RPM.

Some 2G FWD cars have a speed limiter which cuts off fuel at 130 MPH.  This is because the stock H-rated tires are only rated up to 130 MPH.  Replacing the tires and performing this procedure will eliminate it.  Warning: you do this procedure at your own risk. There is some information that this fix only works for 1995-1998 cars.

For 1Gs, there are several differences between T and NT cars of the same year, aside from (duh) the turbo (or lack thereof).

Generally, turbo cars can be identified by:

• The lettering 'TSi' on the rear of the car. Non-turbos are "ES", "ESi", or "DL".
• The presence of a boost gauge in the instrument cluster, inset into the tachometer. (Pictures (2G) here and (1G) here (Adobe Acrobat required). This gauge does not exist on NT cars.
• The words "Premium unleaded fuel only" on the fuel gauge. See (2G) here (Acrobat required).
• For AWD cars only, the words "All Wheel Drive" on the side of the car.

On 1G cars, there are two non-turbo engines: the SOHC 1.8L and the DOHC 2.0L. The 2.0L is based on the same 4G63 engine as the turbo models. It has higher compression pistons (9:1 vs 7.8:1) and no turbocharger or intercooler. The 1.8L is based on the 4G37 engine and also has 9:1 compression.

On 2G cars, there also also two non-turbo engines: the 2.0L and the 2.4L. The 2.0L is not based on the Mitsubishi 4G63 engine; rather it is based on the Chrysler 420A engine, which is why 2G NT owners share some parts, upgrades and procedures with other Chrysler products such as the Are Sebrings and Avengers DSMs?. The SOHC 2.4L is the Mitsubishi 4G64 engine, which is "sort-of" similar to the 4G63 engine used in the turbo models. The 4G64 was only offered in the Spyder convertible models.

For 1Gs, there are several differences between manual and auto cars of the same year, aside from (duh) the transmission.

Auto 1G cars have 
-  smaller turbochargers 
-  smaller injectors (390cc) 
-  a 'power/economy' switch located next to the shift lever 
-  ECUs designed for the smaller injectors 
-  cams designed to produce more low-end torque [1G only]

Manual 1G cars have: 
-  bigger turbochargers 
-  larger injectors (450cc) 
-  a nifty little coin holder next to the shift lever, a fave place to put electronic widgets of one sort or another. 
-  ECUs designed for the larger injectors 
-  ECUs designed to produce less low-end torque [1G only]

2G owners rejoice, as their auto and manual cars have identical engines - assuming, of course, you are comparing apples to apples. Aside from the presence/absence of the 'power/economy' switch, there are no other obvious differences. There still may be additional differences for both 1G and 2G cars.

Aside from badging, logos and some stickers, there are usually no differences between the 1G Eclipse and the Talon of the same model year.  Some 1G Talons and Eclipses had different rear ends; the Eclipse is more like the Laser than the Talon.

It has also been reported that 2G Talons have a different ODBII port than same-year Eclipses, and are not wired to accept a CD changer unless the changer was included as a factory option with the car. Eclipses apparantly have the harness installed even if the CD changer is missing.

Also, Eagle is a dead marque; there will be no more Talons. The Eclipse nameplate is continued on in the 3G Eclipse.

There are not many differences. Canadian cars never had the automatic seatbelts ("mouse belts") present in earlier USA DSMs. Also, U.S. cars lack the daylight running light (DRL) system of the Canadian cars. Canadian cars also have metric instrumentation, including km/hr (speedometer), km (odometer) and kg/m3 ('boost' gauge). Canadian cars also have a 90A alternator, as opposed to the U.S. spec 75A.

CA cars have more stringent emissions requirements than Federal cars, so they have a couple of extra pieces of equipment. An exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) solenoid valve is installed on CA cars next to the fuel pressure solenoid valve, while Federal cars have a empty space there. 1G CA ECUs are programmed slightly differently than Federal ECUs, making it problematic to switch ECUs from car to car without getting error codes.

To add to the confusion, all 1994 USA DSMs had California emissions, meaning there are technically no Federal 1994 cars. This prevents 1994 owners from installing an EGR blockoff plate, as the CA-style ECU is smart enough to notice and flag an error code. This requires the substitution of a 92-93 Federal ECU for the original CA ECU.

[Other changes to be added.]

Other than that, there are no differences between Federal and CA cars.

Virtually all aspects of turbo design can change from model to model.  

[[UPDATE_NEEDED]]

The serial number of your car is the last 6 digits of its Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). Unfortunately, the serial numbers for DSMs are largely mixed in with those of other vehicles built in the same plant - in our case, the Sebring and Avenger. To make things worse, the Laser, Talon and Eclipse serial numbers were similarily mixed up, meaning there is no reliable way of knowing how many of the same model vehicle were made prior to your own.

The exception may be very early 1990 cars - the Talon was apparantly a late addition to the model lineup, so it is somewhat more likely that Talons were made with sequential serial numbers up to a point.

Galant VR-4 owners have the advantage here, as there were a limited number of Galants made in early model years. Owners that list their cars "number" are typically GVR4 owners, as GVR4s have a dash plate listing the "number" of the car in that production year. This number does not correlate to the VIN, which throws more cold water onto the theory that Talon, Eclipse or Laser owners have the ability to figure out their car number.

The VIN also holds lots of other information. Some of it is in this answer, or check in the shop manual for details. In addition, there is a sticker on the driver's door that lists when the car was manufactured: MDH stands for month, date, and hour.

The two engines have different oil pans, among other changes.

Before the oil pan method was identified, the only way to 'tell' if you had a 7-bolt engine was the production date of the car. According to the staff of Conicelli Mitsubishi, cars produced between March, 1989 and the third week of April, 1992 have 6-bolt motors; May, 1992 to the first week of May, 1994 have 7-bolt motors.

Another way might be to check the front brakes. 7-bolt engines are associated with big brakes; cars that have big brakes often have 7-bolt engines. Unfortunately, nobody seems to know if this method is reliable or not.

According to the staff of Conicelli Mitsubishi, all 1G cars produced before the second week of June, 1991, have 3-bolt rears. This essentially covers all 1990 and 1991 DSMs. All 1992-1994 cars have 4-bolt rears.

Many DSM owners are under the mistaken impression that the changeover between the original 3-bolt rear end and the stronger 4-bolt version occurred halfway through the 1992 model year. This is not so.

Those curious to know the production date for their car can check the driver's side doorjamb sticker. The acronym MDH stands for month, day and hour of production.

Phone any dealer of your marque car with your VIN number in hand.  They will tell you what recalls are currently outstanding for your car.  Also check the NTHSA for information on both recalls and TSBs.

Canadians can check the Transport Canada Vehicle Recalls On-Line Database, or call Chrysler Canada at 1-800-465-2001.

This is generally an impossible question for anybody other than yourself to answer. Only you can determine which features you prefer in a vehicle.

1G cars of the same model type (non-turbo, turbo, AWD turbo) are all similar in performance potential regardless of marque. 1993 and 1994 cars have the newest transmissions and big brakes installed, and will generally be in better condition than older cars. 1990-1992 cars will be cheaper and have the same performance potential as the newer versions. Some models may not be available in your market.

The same general rules apply for 2G cars - condition is directy proportional to price, but the upgrade potential is very similar across similar models of different brand. All Galant VR-4s are essentially the same as well.

Which model you will end up with will be determined by your plans for the vehicle, your personal capabilities and your budget. If you desire a make or model not available in your local market, you will have more difficulties maintaining the car since parts will be less available.

This is far too subjective a question to answer.  As with any automobile purchase, the buyer/seller must weigh such factors as options, condition, mileage, warranty, upgrades/repairs, market value and financial need in setting a 'fair' price.

Fortunately, there are several guides to automobile buying available online. The Kelley Blue Book is now available on the net, and lets you check the ever-elusive 'blue book price'.Edmund's offers free information and advice, including the ever-elusive dealer price (what they really pay) and negotiating tips.  Check Yahoo! for at least 40 other sources of car purchasing information.  Research your local market by checking out what used vehicles are selling for. Canadians, don't forget craigslist and kijiji

It is extremely important for new owners to read the "Vital recall and safety information" section of this FAQ, so as to avoid serious difficulties. 

The various problems have also been extensively discussed in the past. Read forums. It is simply the best way to become familiar with the DSM cars.

Newcomers to the DSM world, through reading the Talon Digest, may fall under the impression that DSMs are unreliable cars and are plagued with all sorts of problems.  This is not true.  DSMs do not have any more problems than the next car, and are quite reliable in many key areas.

The reasons why far more problems than 'normal' are reported are as follows:

• Generally, those breaking their cars are either A) Abusing their cars (driving hard) or B) Have modified past design parameters of the parts. Going for 200 to 400hp will tend to break things.
• Forums spanning almost 3 decades of DSM owners, which is an unusually large user base from which to compile problem reports.
• There are many automotive and DSM experts on the Digest who can detect, analyze and report problems reliably and accurately.
• Discussions about problems and their possible fixes are integral to the concept of forums, so all subscribers can benefit from experience. Not often to people sign up to tell everyone trouble free the cars are.
• Because of this, the Digest user base is unusually well informed about the nature of possible (not necessarily probable) problems with their car, and often take preventative steps to avoid known pitfalls.
• There are many types of racers who use DSMs.  Those in the fastest classes (or those attempting to get into the fastest classes) break parts as a matter of course for their chosen sport, as they often far exceed the design parameters of the OEM parts.
• Some of these cars are getting towards 20 years old, and will occasionally require replacement parts as a matter of course.
• And finally, people are far more likely to post about a problem than about a routine day going to and from work; this is simply human nature.

Many vehicles have problems which are easily more widespread and/or more severe than DSMs, but members of the public usually do not hear about them unless they are an owner of an affected vehicle.  DSM owners have the advantage of drawing from the accumulated knowledge of a large experienced group that covers all of North America, through resources like forums and this FAQ page.

Aside from some 'lemon' cars, DSMers are usually quite happy with their vehicles.  There are a few disappointed owners who have had bad luck, which is true of ANY car make.